If you closely follow the government technology space like I do, you are most likely extremely familiar with MeriTalk and the work done by John Curran and Grace Dille. MeriTalk has proved an indispensable chronicler of breaking news and analysis related to government tech initiatives, policies and strategy.
In this episode of “Gov & Beyond,” hosts Luca Pagni and Joyson Cherian speak with John, MeriTalk’s Executive Editor, and Grace, Assistant Managing Editor at the publication, about their respective backgrounds, how they like to work and the tech topics that most often grab their attention. And of course, which songs they hate the most.
As a former journalist, I am always heartened to hear from editors and reporters who are enthusiastic about their work. That quality definitely can be heard in this “Gov & Beyond” interview. You’ll hear a lot of discussion from John and Grace about the technology changes they’ve witnessed over the years and the topics they find most compelling.
Their Paths to MeriTalk
With regard to their respective backgrounds, John – a 40-year journalism veteran – told Luca and Joyson that he spent years writing for media outlets such as Reuters and Dow Jones before coming to MeriTalk in 2017. For her part, Grace said she came to MeriTalk nearly five years ago, her first gig after graduating from the University of Maryland – an alma mater she shares with the podcast hosts (and me too!).
John noted that when he started, cloud computing was considered “exotic” and edgy, and that he was aware of artificial intelligence (AI), but it wasn’t discussed much. Now, as Grace mentioned in the interview as well, AI has risen to become one of the most discussed topics covered in the pages of MeriTalk – with cloud computing still a notable topic, but one that is almost ubiquitous in the world of government tech. Grace concurred that generative AI has been a top focus in her coverage, and added that she sees quantum computing as a major up-and-coming story for government tech. “I’m curious to see how federal agencies transition to post quantum cryptography algorithms,” she told Joyson.
How to Get Their Attention
So what stories do they want to see in pitches? As John put it quite simply, anything that resides at the intersection of government and technology. “…A great story for us is something that explains a little bit about how government is using technology, because that’s the kind of thing that unites the people that we send news to,” he said. That includes policy news emanating from the White House and Capitol Hill, and how agencies implement those policies. He said he also spends a lot of time gathering news at government and industry events and conferences. Grace added she and her colleagues have been busy tracking court cases, such as challenges to actions taken by the controversial Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE).
As we’ve heard from other Gov & Beyond interviewees, Grace said PR folks who want to pitch her should first take time to see what she’s written about in the past and make sure the story they’re pitching falls under her beat and focus areas. Both she and John noted that a personal touch is helpful, with John in particular noting that pitches should not “sound like a robot.” He also offered tips on how to get him to include experts’ quotes in policy stories (basically, try to anticipate his needs as a reporter) and why he isn’t likely to write about a vendor’s product – no matter how great it is.
“Happy” Makes Her Angry
And while we’re on the subject of what not to do, don’t play the song “Happy” when Grace is around. It will have the exact opposite effect on her as Pharrell Williams no doubt intended. For John, that would go for anything by the band Limp Bizkit. And don’t order grapefruit if you’re having breakfast with him.
On the other hand, John will gladly enter a discussion with you about the merits of Quentin Tarantino movies. And Grace will no doubt be impressed if you can quote lines to her from the movie, “The Devil Wears Prada” – which she noted is in fact a journalism movie.
For the full interview with John and Grace and to hear more about how to pitch to and contact them, listen to the full podcast below or read the transcript.
Timestamps
0:37 – John and Grace’s careers covering government technology
2:14 – The evolution of the federal IT market
5:00 – Staying atop of the latest headlines
7:51 – AI, Quantum Computing and other topics piquing John and Grace’s interest
11:26 – Timeliness and relevance are the essence of a good pitch
15:32 – MeriTalk’s Tech Tonic Events
18:39 – MeriTalk movie night – “almost anything from Quentin Tarantino” and “The Devil Wears Prada”
20:16 – No sushi and no grapefruit
21:31 – Limp Bizkit makes John want to “Break Stuff” and Grace isn’t too “Happy” with this song
23:14 – Best ways to connect with John and Grace
Transcript
Intro: Welcome to Gov & Beyond. I’m your host, Luca Pagni, here with my co-host, Joyson Cherian. This podcast features conversations with the newsmakers and influencers at the center of today’s public sector news cycles. From our studio at W2 Communications, let’s go Gov & Beyond.
Luca Pagni (LP): Welcome everyone to “Gov & Beyond.” I’m your host Luca Pagni here with my cohost Joyson Cherian. We’re excited to be joined today by Meritalk’s Executive Editor, John Curran and Assistant Managing Editor, Grace Dille. Welcome to the show.
Grace Dille (GD): Thanks for having us.
John Curran: Thank you,
LP: Awesome. Well, John, Grace, would love to start off more by learning a bit more about your respective backgrounds, careers and roles in MeriTalk. John, let’s start with you.
John: So my background is a long-time journalism background. Just this month, it will mark my 40th year in the business, reporting news out of Washington, D.C. Generally, some big component of that is covering things that the federal government does. So, been around for a long time. Was at Reuters, was at Dow Jones for a long time, did telecom stuff with Telecommunications Reports, and then landed at MeriTalk in 2017 and been covering technology and government stuff since then. So it’s a thing I’ve always done, and I really like the news business and everybody I meet in it.
GD: Yeah. So for myself, I’m coming up on five years at MeriTalk in January. And I started out as a Tech Reporter and then became a Senior Tech Reporter, and now I’m helping out as our Assistant Managing Editor. We all cover pretty much anything federal IT-related, but I’d say I focus more on stories related to the Department of Veterans Affairs and federal workforce. And yeah, I’m a graduate of University of Maryland, and MeriTalk was my first full time gig out of college.
Joyson Cherian: I speak on behalf of Luca and I when I say, fear the turtle, as both Maryland graduates ourselves.
GC: Oh, I love it. Go Terps.
LP: Go Terps.
Joyson: Jumping into our next question. You know, both of you have extensive experience covering the federal IT space. How have you seen the technology in the market evolve over your years covering the space, and what do you foresee happening as it continues to evolve?
John: So, when I came here in 2017, it will sound funny now, but cloud computing was still regarded as a bit exotic. Not toxically so; there were agencies adopting it. But there was a lot of conversation about, was this good or was this bad? And a lot of things revolved around, how do you modernize legacy IT, which is still a big question. And then as a little bit of time went on, I think cybersecurity issues came maybe to the very front of the line, and things like zero trust security, things from the Biden EO in 2021. So that was kind of the progression. It won’t surprise anyone that I think today we would all see that AI is a thing that we write about almost every day in some way, or read about every day in some way. In 2017, AI existed. Sort of classical AI was certainly there, but it really wasn’t talked about very much. And it didn’t seem to be lined up to have the kind of impact that it does. Right when I joined the company, I used to ask people, private sector people that really kind of knew stuff, what was AI? What was it going to do? And the explanations there were pretty simple, and it was, you know, kind of parsing through a lot of data to get at some conclusions. But, you know, it’s gone way beyond that since then. So that will be a thing I think that will drive the kind of front page news forward, to the extent that we can see what the future is.
Joyson: Grace?
GD: Yeah. I mean, obviously I was going to mention AI as well. I think that has made big waves in recent years. So I joined MeriTalk January 2021, and then I think the launch of ChatGPT came at the end of 2022. And I feel like that has really changed the game. I think the use of AI throughout government is only going to accelerate. So that would be a big one. I guess another area is quantum computing. I’m curious to see how federal agencies transition to post quantum cryptography algorithms. You know, we don’t really have any quantum computers in operation yet, but we know they’re coming and federal agencies will have to be ready for that.
Joyson: You guys both mentioned AI and quantum computing. Obviously, two dynamic technologies that have the potential to really change not just the consumer works and operates day to day, but the federal government. With how quickly the federal IT environment is changing, how do both of you at MeriTalk stay on top of all the latest headlines?
John: Well, I read an awful lot, and I read very quickly. So I read from a lot of sources, anything that’s on the web, anything that similar news services are doing, I’m always reading that. I’m taking a lot of input from things that people send to me. People that I know, people that I don’t, they email me things and put things in front of me. If it’s a pretty good pitch. I will read it a tiny bit. But I do find myself just trying to soak up as much information about what today’s news is, but also trying to work it through what I think news is for MeriTalk and for MeriTalk readers. And so the real intersection point is, is it technology and is it government? And is it where the line crosses on those two? And so really a great story for us is something that explains a little bit about how government is using technology, because that’s the kind of thing that unites the people that we send news to and sort of keeps them with us and keeps them focused. We do pay a lot of attention to policy news. So things that come from the White House, things that come from Capitol Hill. One of the sweetest spots is hearing how, for instance, a federal agency may be implementing some of that policy, so how they’re doing security, how they’re doing AI. And then the very best news, and really kind of harder for anyone else to get a hold of, is when you go to conferences and events around town, of which there are many, and you listen to government people, and they tell you what they do all day and how it’s going. And so we write a lot about that, and that’s how we get out and meet people.
GD: Yeah, I would echo everything John just said. I would say these past few months have definitely been busy with the new administration. And I guess one thing we’ve been trying to keep track of as well is court cases with this new administration, especially those involving DOGE and data privacy and whatnot. So we all kind of are assigned our own court cases on our team that we keep track of. I know I keep a running list of my court cases, and I’ll check on those just about every morning to see if there are any new developments in that case, and just keep track of that. So I would say that’s another avenue that we’re watching as well.
LP: Got it and, you know, Grace, you kind of said something that caught my ear of just, again, with everything that’s been going on with the current administration, just all the news that’s happened in the last six months. I’d be curious to hear from you and John of what topics and trends are currently piquing your interest the most. And are there any topics or issues that you’re hoping to cover more of throughout the year? I know AI and quantum seem to be probably top of the list.
GD: Yeah, definitely AI and quantum. I’m curious to see how agencies will continue to implement generative AI. I know a lot of agencies have launched their own chatbots recently. But I’d also say there have been a lot of layoffs recently, so I’m kind of curious to see how that will affect the cybersecurity talent pipeline and just the fed IT workforce in general. I’m kind of curious to see what the long term effects of these layoffs will be on the tech workforce.
John: And I’ll just add in on that one. I mean, you guys know that the pace of the administration moving along with what it wants to do is quite fast. So there’s a lot to do, and it drives a lot of the daily news conversation. Looking into the future and thinking about things that we would like to get our arms around eventually is the size of federal government agencies. I mean, USAID really doesn’t exist anymore. It used to be a pretty good agency. Under the Trump administration reorg plans, which are kind of blocked in court now, but may be unblocked, agencies may get quite a bit smaller. They may drop in personnel terms by 50%. So it makes me think, having been around a while, how will agencies use technology to accomplish missions if they are really employing far less people? So that’s just kind of a nuts and bolts. How do you apply technology to that? Really big, I think, for federal IT stuff, for just technology stuff, is the role of GSA, General Services Administration, in sort of setting itself up to be the very center of how acquisition is going to happen through their OneGov effort. I think that changes the lives of agency tech people. I’d like to know how that changes the life of an agency CIO, who I think in prior times, had a little more room to talk with buyers or sellers of stuff and so forth. But now I feel like GSA is going to end up giving you, like, a menu of stuff, you know, pick from this, pick from that. So CIOs’ lives are going to be different. And then, everyone kind of knows this, but the gaps that are going to be created in agencies is very much the thought that something to do with AI is going to close those gaps, or is going to take up that slack. And it sounds great, and it may be great, but seeing it implemented is going to be kind of the proof of the pudding. That’s going to be really, really fascinating. So all of those things are things that I think will kind of emerge out of the landscape a little bit, and I think are going to make a ton of news.
LP: Definitely, we’ll have to keep our eyes on those trends in those areas. Then actually, John, I do want to go back to one other thing that you brought up. I’m sure that both of you and your team get a ton of pitches on a daily basis. Could you tell us more about the types of resources that you and your team look for what makes a compelling pitch?
John: Grace, why don’t you tell them what a good pitch might look like?
GD: Okay, a good pitch. I mean, yeah, we obviously get a lot. It’s helpful if they have read our stories in the past and sort of know what our beats are, what we’re covering, saying, “Hey, I saw you covered this. You might be interested in XYZ or a quote from so and so to add to your stories in the future.” So, yeah, definitely keeping track of what we’re reporting. It definitely has to involve technology and the government. But I would say, you know, we’re subscribed to federal agency press lists and press lists for lawmakers. We obviously keep in touch with their press offices as well. I would say recently, unions have been helpful to talk to, as well as non-profits, such as the Partnership for Public Service. You know, they’ll sometimes hold press calls to just help keep reporters in the loop and discuss recent Trump administration actions and whatnot. So, you know, there’s a lot of resources we look for, but I’d say those are some of the main ones.
John: And just to amplify some of that, so I get pitched a ton, and mostly on email, although there are some phone pitches that are really good too. Some of the pitches seem to be from robots, and if you sound like a robot, I’m not going to pay a lot of attention. If you sound like a human, that’s better. The best pitch is from a person that knows us a little bit, so knows what we do and has put enough time and attention into maybe anticipating what we might cover that day. So let’s say there’s a big House hearing on AI is it good or bad? Chances are we have a reporter on that. And so if you’re pitching for a company, or you’re pitching to get a comment in and you and you know that, and you can anticipate that. You could email me in the morning and say, “Hey, there’s a hearing at 10. It’ll probably be over by 12, and I have a really smart person who wants to put in a comment. And if I got that to you at 1pm does that work?” I’d be like, “Yes, that really works.” The way that one doesn’t work is when somebody pitches me after that event. I’m getting close to deadline, which is 4pm, so I can’t even look at what people are sending me. And then the other thing that doesn’t work, and I get a lot of these kind of alarmingly, a lot of these people will say, “I have a great person for you to talk to, but they’re not going to be available until Friday at six o’clock at night, and you also have to interview them too.” And I’ll just kind of let it slide by, because it’s just not going to work for me. But somebody that can get to me while the story is happening with something succinct from a really good person, that is a winning pitch. And that’s the way to get a person into a story. The other sort of general comment about pitching is that, if you’re pitching just products and services, I’m never going to get to them. Even though I understand that your company’s products and services are wonderful and probably the best ever, we just, we’re not gonna get to them. So if that’s practical advice, hopefully it can be used.
LP: It’s definitely a great insight. Yeah, definitely wanna make sure that you’re doing the homework and make sure that it is timely and relevant. So understood.
Joyson: John, you mentioned a little bit earlier that MeriTalk a lot of times gets a lot of their information from going to events, learning about what’s being said, and sort of engaging with those activities and those presenting there. But MeriTalk is also pretty active in the federal community. Could you tell us a little bit more about your Tech Tonic events?
John: Yeah, absolutely. So Tech Tonic, it’s fun. It’s a big happy hour with a ton of tech-y people at it from government and from the private sector. So that’s the kind of top line on it. We do it every couple of months. It’s at Morton’s in downtown D.C. And usually we begin right at the beginning with some little kind of a program. We might recognize people for, you know, AI work, cyber work, so a little bit of like award ceremonies. We do that stuff too, but we may also have a few speakers, just people that speak briefly, and they’re from government, they’re from the private sector. They would speak about some kind of technology thing. You would hear them talk about AI or security or whatever, not like a long thing, and a lot of times, kind of an off the record thing. But it gives you the opportunity to meet people, and to walk up and say “Hi, my name is John,” and shake hands and sort of get to know somebody a little bit. And so that I find really, really valuable. I think a lot of people do. Usually the event grows over a couple of hours to several hundred people. And so it’s really kind of a good rocking crowd. And I sit there with a beer in my hand and talk to people and learn stuff. And I think a lot of people do that too. So people are seeing old friends, but everyone’s always looking to network to get to know people. And my last comment on it, and I’m sure everyone sees it, is, we use technology so much to stay in touch, and we could do that forever and never meet the human beings. But when we go to a Tech Tonic or we go to another event like that, I realize almost immediately how much people actually want to hang out with each other. And it’s just such a great old time-y way to get to know people. And you know, we tend to think this business is kind of about technology, and it really is, except it’s really a people business. So anyway, it’s a great way to meet the people. It’s free to go and, you know, come on down. I won’t be hard to find, and I’ll talk your ear off.
GD: I will add I think our next Tech Tonic is July 17. So if people want to come, come on down. But I would just say, yeah, they’re a lot of fun. I’ll be there, not with a beer, but usually a glass of wine, chatting it up with people. But they’re always a good time. So if you haven’t gone, you should definitely come.
Joyson: Fantastic. You know, this podcast, we definitely love to know how people work, what are the things that capture their interest. But beyond that, we also want to know a little bit about you beyond the nine to five. So I would like to close the conversation with a few get to know you questions, the first being what is one of your most frequently watched movies. If you come across it, you stop what you’re doing and immediately start watching. John. We’ll start with you.
John: You know, almost anything from Quentin Tarantino will make me stop and look at it for another 10 minutes or 20 minutes. The one he put out a couple of years ago about the sort of alternate take on the Manson family.
LP: “Once Upon a Time in Hollywood?”
John: Yeah, it’s just a ridiculously great movie to watch. And it’s got a much better outcome than real history. But all of his stuff I will always watch because it’s so beautiful to see and it’s so well put together. I would also just mention that my wife is a total movie buff, and so keeps us programmed at home with stuff from the very beginning to the very latest.
Joyson: Amazing. Grace? [Note from Brad: See what he did there?]
GD: Mine is a little different, but I would say “The Devil Wears Prada” is my go-to. It’s a very nostalgic movie for me, I used to have it on DVD and watch it on repeat when I was younger, but it’s a good one. And it’s also technically a journalism movie, which people forget.
LP: Definitely counts as a journalism movie. And just kind of going in the other direction. You know, Joyson and I, having done these episodes, when you ask people what they like, they’ll tell you. But when you ask them what they hate, they get really passionate about it. So to that point, what is one dish or food ingredient that you just absolutely hate?
GD: Oh, I would say sushi, which is pretty controversial, because I feel like a lot of people love sushi. But I don’t know. I think it’s a texture thing for me, the thought of eating raw fish, I just, I can’t do it.
John: I’m kind of going to second you on sushi. I mean, if it’s really tame looking, I can eat it, but I definitely don’t seek it out. The food ingredient, the food that kills me, is grapefruit. And I don’t know why, but it does something in my taste buds that’s almost violent opposition. And I don’t know why that is. Maybe there’s some stray genetic “I hate grapefruit” gene. But yeah, if we ever have breakfast, no grapefruits.
LP: I have to say I’m a little hurt by the sushi comment, but I do get it.
GD: I apologize. [laughs]
Joyson: Which brings us to our closing question. If you never had to hear this song again, you would be extremely happy. What song is that? Grace, we’ll start with
you.
GD: Well, I guess this is kind of an ironic title, but the song I chose is “Happy” by Pharrell Williams. It’s just so overplayed that it just makes me angry now when I hear it [laughs].
LP: I agree with that one.
John: Music, all right. I’m gonna maybe take you back to when you were little kids. And I will preface by saying I really like music. I play an instrument, I sing, I play with groups, so I’m pretty forgiving. Music is like a great thing. But in the kind of “before your time” category, there was a band called Limp Bizkit. And they were so mindless that they made me stop listening to the radio. I just didn’t listen to the radio. After that, I was like, “Okay, it’s gone to a place where I just can’t deal with.” So yeah, thanks to those guys, radio advertising went down by one.
LP: So is it safe to say, “It’s John’s way or the highway?” [laughter]
John: I don’t even know if they’re still out there, and that might be a really unfair accusation against that band. But, man, they stunk, and I just couldn’t listen to it anymore. That’s it.
LP: I can say they’re still touring. I have not gone to said event, but I know friends that have gone to it, so somehow they still have a listening.
John: I’m sure they’re great, and I just haven’t gotten it yet. [laughs]
LP: Well, John, Grace, it’s been a pleasure talking to you both, and really appreciate the time. If any of our listeners wanted to learn more about you and the work that you’re both doing at MeriTalk, what’s the best way for them to reach you both?
John: To reach me, email me. So jcurran@meritalk.com. Second best way, especially if you’re a really great PR person with a lot of scoopy stuff, let’s have some coffee. Let’s like, see our faces and get to kind of know each other. If you can’t do that, check us out at Tech Tonic. We’re totally there, and we’re hosts, right? So we’re going to be showing you a good time. And let’s kind of meet there and see what’s up.
LP: Awesome. Grace?
GD: Yeah, I would say you could email me as well. My email is gdille@meritalk.com. You can also check me out on LinkedIn. I have my email on there as well and my Signal is linked on there. But yeah, definitely come to Tech Tonic if you ever want to chat, we’ll be there. But yeah, I’d say email or LinkedIn are the best ways.
LP: Perfect. Well, thank you to everyone who tuned into this episode, and thank you, John and Grace for helping us go “Gov & Beyond.”
John: Thank you.
GD: Thank you.
Outro: Thank you for joining us on today’s episode of Gov & Beyond. To learn more about our podcast and hear all of our episodes, please visit us at w2comm.com/govandbeyond. And make sure to follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter @govandbeyond. You can also subscribe anywhere podcasts are found.