I’m not sure if we can call it a trend in Defense tech journalism, but the last two episodes of Gov & Beyond featured journalists who became reporters following their military service. Those who follow the podcast may recall that last month, hosts Luca Pagni and Joyson Cherian interviewed Jon Simkins, editor in chief of Military Times and Defense News. In the latest episode, they interviewed Drew Lawrence, reporter at DefenseScoop. Both Jon and Drew discussed their past military service and how those experiences have informed their approaches to journalism.
Some may be concerned about how this type of experience might call into question the reporter’s objectivity. But at least with Jon and Drew, their experience appears to have added depth to their coverage as well as an ability to cut through to the essential core of the issues they cover.
Getting to the Unvarnished Truth
In Drew’s case, he indicated that his service has had a profound impact on the types of stories he likes to pursue as a reporter and how he covers those topics. In the podcast, he noted that his military experience has helped him to see past the “minutia” of details that don’t impact end users and to focus more sharply on the hardware and technology that actually help them conduct their missions.
“I think it’s really important to keep in mind the people who will be responsible and charged for actually using these things – so soldiers, Marines, Airmen, for example,” Drew said. “And so it’s really important to me to cover where the tech and the people who are using it intersect.”
He also noted that his experience has helped him connect to end users of defense technology and tackle the issues most important to them. He said those end users are more likely to give straightforward and honest opinions about interesting topics such as the efficacy, safety or training around the technology they’re using.
“And that is a really important voice to capture,” he said. “Because not only are they the ones who will be using it, but they’re also going to give you a pretty unvarnished look at what it actually does or doesn’t do. And I think it helps to have been in their shoes to kind of understand and capture that perspective.”
The Importance of Conferences
Interestingly, Drew stays in touch with those sources – as well as those at higher levels of government and with contractors – by attending industry conferences and events. He told Luca and Joyson that he finds events such as the recent SOF Week conference, focused on issues related to military special operations, extremely valuable in terms of face-to-face interaction with sources from both government and industry and hands-on contact with the technology he covers.
“It’s also good networking,” he said. “I think, given the now limited access for reporters at the Pentagon, conferences like these give reporters – and therefore the public – a window for independent information…[Conferences] are a really important function for the free press and people’s ability and interest in what the military is doing, what it is not doing, what it is buying, things like that.”
Drew said his experience at SOF Week illustrated the importance these events still carry in the industry, with 30,000 attendees watching presentations and viewing demos of technology related to the Pentagon’s special operations mission. After hearing Drew’s comments, you may become convinced that predictions about the demise of in-person industry events have proven greatly exaggerated.
Listen to the podcast below or read the transcript for more on Drew’s military experience and his views on industry events as well as the topics he plans to cover in the future. And as always on “Gov & Beyond,” you’ll hear about some of his personal favorites (and least favorites) when it comes to movies, music and food.
Timestamps
0:32 – Drew’s Journey from the U.S. Army to DefenseScoop
1:26 – The core distinction between military tech and transformative military tech
5:44 – How Drew’s service helps his storytelling
7:33 – How SOF Week and related events support his writing
14:37 – Can’t resist watching “No Country for Old Men”
15:21 – A Foodie’s Only Disdain…Cilantro
17:20 – Never make your favorite TV shows theme song the sound of your alarm clock
Transcript
Intro: Welcome to Gov & Beyond. I’m your host. Luca Pagni, here with my cohost Joyson Cherian. This podcast features conversations with the newsmakers and influencers at the center of today’s public sector news cycles from our studio at W2 Communications, let’s go Gov & Beyond.
Luca Pagni (LP): Welcome, everyone, to “Gov & Beyond.” I’m your host, Luca Pagni, here with my co-host Joyson Cherian. We’re excited to be joined today by Drew Lawrence, reporter at DefenseScoop. Drew, welcome to the show.
Drew Lawrence (DL): Thanks for having me.
LP: Of course. Drew, we’d love to start by learning more about your background and your role now at DefenseScoop. Could you tell us a little bit more about yourself and your career thus far?
DL: Yeah, sure. So right now I am a staff reporter at DefenseScoop. And my main focus is on the intersection of technology and policy, and how those two affect the service member, or in industry parlance, the end user or customer. Before that, you know, I’ve published stories in CNN, Washington Post, Military.com – where I worked for a little over three years, and covered personnel – and some other military-focused publications. And before that, I was in the Army, where I served as an armor officer for four years.
LP: Awesome. And thank you for your service.
DL: Thanks.
Joyson Cherian (JC): Drew, I think digging into defense is such a compelling arena because the industry is evolving so much, but especially in the last year. What has captured your attention the most, and is there anything in particular you’re keeping a close eye on in the months and possibly years ahead?
DL: Yeah, I think in my mind I wanted to kind of take a step back and kind of look at the distinction between military tech and transformative military tech. And I think it’s an important distinction because there’s this, you know, near eternal history of military technology kind of having this osmosis, or this reverse osmosis, to the societies that that created. And that’s a difference that I try to keep track of, and we’re seeing today a lot of that transformative technology play out. For example, you know, to me, there’s a difference between the sensor on the F-35 and the kind of turn-of-the-screw acquisition process that happens there.
But then there are these really huge developments that really change society, for better or worse. AI and drones are kind of obvious examples that we write about at DefenseScoop a lot, but I’m also interested in maybe some of the more less obvious examples of transformative tech. An example of that that I’ve really been focusing on is counter drone technology, which were increasingly being seen fielded domestically.
I also think that changes to the medical system and medical technologies are highly understated forms of transformative technology. It’s a really big problem that the military is working for, that the military is working through, and that can include anything from artificial blood to even the dummies that medics work on, where they were kind of these plastic non-human looking things that they would work on, and now you’re seeing a development in those where they’re pretty much as close to a human cadaver without actually being a human to get more realistic experience with combat medicine, for example. So I think there’s a lot to be explored beyond AI, automation, drones – some of the things that really, for good reasons, capture a lot of public attention. And some of those examples are ones that I’m focusing on in the weeks and months and years to come.
JC: It’s interesting that you…I’m glad that you gave the clarification between tech and transformative tech. I’m sure in the last year, there’s been a lot of companies that have come to the market or are reaching out to you or trying to target the DoD/DoW positioning their technology as transformative technology. What makes this technology actually transformative versus marketing buzzwords that the company thinks is interesting, but you, from a broader perspective, you’re looking for something more tangible from a storyline perspective?
DL: I think there are a lot of answers to that question, depending on who you ask. For me, it’s really about the effect on broader society, whether that’s here in the United States, internationally, across the world, and the way that our society restructures and reacts around different technology. We talked about AI, that’s obviously a very huge example that we don’t have to get into. But then there are those other examples where they’re less about the equipment itself and what it does, say, in conflict and more about what that may look like, as some of the equipment and the ideas behind it flow into domestic society. And to me that’s a really important distinction that I look for, because I find it very interesting when different technologies kind of have that reverse signature on society.
LP: And I feel like you’ve touched on this a little bit thus far, but as an Army veteran, how has this sort of guided or navigated your coverage, or even just the lens through which you’re covering defense tech?
DL: Yeah, so we talked about the kind of the broad strokes of society, but I also think that it goes back to kind of what I mentioned at the beginning, in the type of stories I try to look for. And I think when you cover tech, it can be really easy to get sucked into the minutia of acquisition fights, or largely, I guess, in human topics – you know, contracts, the hardware itself. But I think it’s really important to keep in mind the people who will be responsible and charged for actually using these things – so soldiers, Marines, Airmen, for example. And so it’s really important to me to cover where the tech and the people who are using it intersect. For one, it brings a plethora of really interesting topics, whether it’s safety or training around the tech, or, of course, the efficacy of the tech itself. And I find that a soldier or Marine will tell you exactly what they think about a piece of equipment or a system beyond the industry or government pitch. And that is a really important voice to capture, because not only are they the ones who will be using it, but they’re also going to give you a pretty unvarnished look at what it actually does or doesn’t do. And I think it helps to have been in their shoes to kind of understand and capture that perspective.
JC: I think that leads into my question a little bit. Over the last few months, there have been a ton of defense and defense tech-oriented events. You yourself are just coming out of SOF Week last week down in Tampa. What makes events like these extremely valuable to you in your reporting?
DL: So, maybe it’s a bit obvious, but it’s worth mentioning that you get to interact face-to-face with government and industry officials. You can actually put hands on the technology that you read about in contracts or listen to top military military officials talk about what their priorities are and what challenges they’re actually working through. It’s also good networking. I think, given the now limited access for reporters at the Pentagon, conferences like these give reporters and therefore the public a window for independent information and an opportunity just on the ground level to put a face to a name. And that goes both ways, you know, my face to a name, and also the officials that I cover as well. And just impressing upon, in general, for conferences, those human interactions, while it is based around the tech and systems, are a really important function for the free press and people’s ability and interest in what the military is doing, what is not doing, what it is buying, things like that.
JC: When people meet with you at these events, if you were to give them advice on what you’re most interested in learning about, what would that be?
DL: I think generally what I try to go into those conversations with is, again, getting back to what this might mean for the service member who’s going to be using the system or piece of technology, what tactical, operational or strategic real-world challenge the system is hoping to address or fill a gap for, and then generally, why the public, and by extension, the taxpayer should care about this. That kind of goes back to the societal transformation, where the readership is the public. It is, you know, the defense industry and military officials, and also the service members themselves. So being able to contextualize it in a way that isn’t an industry pitch or government pitch of capability is really important for getting to what matters about the tech or system itself.
JC: Awesome. As I just mentioned a moment ago, you were at SOF Week. What caught your attention at the event? What did you learn from it this year? And you know, as you look into the rest of this year, what events and conferences are catching your attention? And if there are things you can change about these events, what would it be?
DL: The immediate thing about SOF Week that caught my attention was the size and how many participants showed up to Tampa. And I mentioned that, because I had never been to SOF Week before, but I understand that this was the largest attendance they had had. I think I had heard somewhere around 30,000 people were there, looking at equipment, watching the demonstrations. And the reason I bring that up is because I think there is a lot of interest in special operations. Not only has there been a lot of attention on that community because of their involvement in Operation Absolute Resolve, which was the capture of Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro earlier this year, but also the transition that I think the special operations community is kind of going through. And so there’s a lot of interest in it for a few different reasons.
I think one of the things that I heard the special operations command leaders discuss was the need for operators to be more tied into the joint conventional force. And as you may remember, and as we saw for decades, Special Operations Command was kind of supported by the conventional military for counterterrorism operations during the global war on terror. Now it seems like SOCOM is positioning itself as more of an enabler for the joint force. And that’s in anticipation for a large-scale combat operation (LSCO), which is kind of the big fight many anticipate may come to a head in the Pacific against China. And I think it was part of this, not just for SOCOM but for the military in general, that there’s a recognition that the GWOT (Global War on Terrorism) way of war, or at least much of it, won’t apply there. So that organization is changing, and it’s been happening for a few years now, but that was very interesting to hear about, to hear leaders talk about what that actually means to have special operators really integrate with the broader force.
And then the one other takeaway that I had was that the baseline needs for SOCOM weren’t really too dissimilar for what we’re seeing across the conventional force – so AI-enabled systems for faster decisions, integrated equipment that can actually communicate with each other for more accessible information. And while the applications might be a little bit different, I heard a lot about drones, electronic warfare, cyber capabilities. Those were all part of the discussion at SOF Week, and they’re also part of the discussions that are happening across the conventional force as well.
LP: Gotcha. And just because I know Joyson slightly touched on it, what other events are you looking forward to ahead this year, and what makes those ones super compelling?
DL: I think that there are a lot. What I do really look forward to is the opportunity to actually spend time with service members who are using this new equipment and experimenting with it, because I think that that is a chance to see not only the technology in action, but where it needs to improve, and where it’s doing well. And that can give you kind of an insight into the broader trends that are talked about at these conferences, or you know, in the halls of various federal buildings across Washington, DC. Because it’s really important to be able to connect what’s happening on the ground with this equipment and how it’s affecting service members with those broader strategic discussions. And that’s something that I am really excited about to delve more into.
LP: That’s awesome, Drew. It’s been great hearing some of your thoughts about the evolution of defense tech. But kind of switching gears, we love to close these episodes with some fun get-to-know-you style questions, just to learn a bit more about the people in the newsroom. So, to get us started, what is one of your most frequently watched movies that, no matter what you’re doing, you will stop to start watching it?
DL: So I really love “No Country for Old Men.” It’s a classic. It’s a great story that’s faithfully adapted from a book that I also love, from an author that I like to read, Cormac McCarthy. And that will get a watch every time it comes on.
JC: Drew, as we’ve been hosting this podcast, one thing we’ve realized is if we ask people what they like, they’re happy to tell us what they like. But if you ask someone what they dislike, they are passionate about that answer. Which leads me to my next question: What food or what dish or food ingredient do you hate, do you not get the appeal of?
DL: So this is a hard question, because I consider myself a foodie. I’m open to trying anything. I will say, as a matter of genetic consequence, I did get the cilantro-tastes-like-soap gene, and that is just…I will never be able to get over that. Even if there’s just a little bit of it, it’ll make the whole dish taste like soap to me. And that’s my answer there. It’s not, I can’t really dislike any specific food, but out of, I guess, necessity, cilantro is the top and probably only ingredient that I will stay away from.
LP: I have to ask, because we’ve heard this before, not we’ve heard the cilantro one before, but as a foodie, do you have any specific rules, or because we’ve heard it’s the three strike rule that I’ll try something three times, if by the fourth time I don’t like it. It’s officially on my do not eat list. Or how forgiving are you when it comes to that?
DL: Well, I get down the slippery slope fallacy, I think, with that. Because what about the fifth time, or the sixth time, or the tenth time? Maybe it’s because I just never learned from bad experiences, but I’m pretty lenient on how many shots I’ll give food before I totally discount it completely.
JC: Drew, as a brother in the anti-cilantro movement, I’d like to give you a virtual high five. I’m on the same boat with you. Last question from our end, if you never had to hear this song again, you would be extremely happy. What song is that?
DL: So this was also a hard one. I love music, and I also appreciate especially – not to tie it back to the tech side of things – but I think there’s a premium and importance on people being creative and making things in the new AI world. So I will never bash someone’s creative product if they, you know, put effort into it and tried. But what I will say is, well, I don’t have a great answer for you. My college roommate used to have the “West Wing” theme song as his alarm every morning. And to this day, it puts me back in the college dorm room, having to wake up early, and gives me chills every time I hear it. So that – love the show but the theme song, I will skip forward, because I just, I can’t hear it anymore.
LP: It always amazes me when people have to use a song or theme song, like, why are you using that to torture yourself to get up in the morning? Like, it’s already painful enough, we don’t need to make it something you enjoy.
DL: Exactly, why do you have to apply something good to an already painful experience, and then tie those two things together?
LP: Drew, thank you so much for your time today. If any of our listeners wanted to learn more about you and the work that you’re doing, what’s the best way for them to get in contact?
DL: First, thanks for having me. I really do appreciate it. And you can head to DefenseScoop.com, and that’s where my work is posted, as well as the work of my really excellent and talented colleagues. And if you want to reach out, I’m on LinkedIn, and I also can be reached through Signal at DFLawrence.51, and that would be for any tips or just wanting to connect.
LP: Awesome. Well, thank you to everyone who tuned in to this episode. And Drew, thank you again for helping us go Gov & Beyond.
Outro: Thank you for joining us on today’s episode of “Gov & Beyond.” To learn more about our podcast and hear all of our episodes. Please visit us at w2comm.com/govandbeyond, and make sure to follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter at Govandbeyond. You can also subscribe anywhere podcasts are found.